Keep in mind Hoffschmidt's book was written circa 1975, so it will have information that is more dated. You had to know somebody or be somebody in order to get a gun. If you can swing it, a 9 mm is a better choice, mainly because the ammo is so much cheaper. late war or post war. Walther Ppk Serial Number Location On Mercury Outboards; Walther Ppk Serial Numbering; In 1910, Walther introduced the 'Deutche Selbstlade Pistole Walther' in 6.35mm. MILITARY ACCEPTED. If you're going to shoot a lot, in not very long the 9 ends up being cheaper. Every week we put items for sale starting at $1 ! And then I apologize in advance. Tim asked me this question which I get asked fairly often. It has gotten very good reviews, too. I'm stuck on the Walther for a few reasons, look an name. We offer a 7 day inspection period and hassle free returns to ensure every customer is happy with whatever they buy from us. You will note that some of these numbers are in the 99xxx serial block, and one does not include the P suffix, which demonstrates that this change was introduced with some confusion. There is a lot of budget cuts and so it might take a while to be able to get a sidearm. I like the looks a balance of the PP better than the PPK. Also, once the War had started Walther received far more orders for PP pistols than PPK pistols. (Left to Right: Polish P-83, Polish P-64, Hungarian RK-59, CZ-82 and E. German Makarov) http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu113.htm. In 1984, Manurhin was imported directly with no Interarms logo or Walther trademark appearing on Models PP and PPK/S. | WW2 Pre-1946 Walther Pistol Variations. so that eagle N looks a lot like a Nazi eagle. Click Here to view our Gunbroker page! Extra mags a little expensive at around $33! So, this is the first variation because it's Eagle 3 5 9. All of this information means that during a given day on the Walther assembly line there could be Walther PP pistols that were 10,000 serial numbers apart, and that at the same time there could be a PPK pistol being manufactured that is 110,000 numbers higher. What you'll notice in period photos that most of the line troops, meaning the grunt soldiers they either carry to P-38 or a Luger and they always say the smaller the gun, the higher the rank. My dear vintage pistol collector friends, I am posting this information for John Pearson (longtime Walther and vintage WW II era pistol collector). They were imported into the USA by Interarms up to 1983. Thus when the PPK pistols were scheduled to start using the K suffix, the next pre-assigned number was around 10728xx. Double action with decocker. Crown over N became Eagle over N in 1941.If your PP has Crown over N, then it was made before 1941, otherwise it was made after 1941. How do I know the difference? In the course of the last number of months I have been visiting and corresponding with Mr. Pearson regarding Walther RSHA SS PP and PPK pistols. So, a lot of the officers who came from the usually the more upper-class people would often go out and buy their own guns. Please call us or email us to set up a time to stop by. However, with a few exceptions.380s tend to be more pocket sized. So, this Waffen, 3 5 9 has two matching magazines. So, the average citizen just couldn't walk into a store and buy a gun. 6-digits number with suffix "K" right on slide. So, during the war, all of the guns PPs and PPKs are going to have an eagle N on the slide. Pick up a copy of either E.J. Most importantly, if you have questions or comments, please like and subscribe to our video, please be sure to contact us. It went to the military. Remember that I said serial numbers were assigned well in advance of when the gun was actually produced, and when the assigned serial numbers for PP and PPK had reached into the million range no change had been made. I have over 12,000 serial numbers at this point and could use some more. At first these pistols were also marked PP on the slide, but in the 7579xx serial block they began to be marked on the slide with the new designation of PPK. For those of you who like the detail, this will go over all of the serial numbers for each variation. It was a special contract. We believe we sell living history, and honor the veterans who fought and died for our freedoms. Post-war PP and PPK's manufactured at Ulm by Walther for commercial . Serial A057xxx. He has included his telephone number if you want to visit with him or have input or a difference of opinion he would be happy to hear from you. The serial number and Crown over N proof mark on the barrel is proper for 1938, I can not make out the marking under the ejecting port on the right side, it doesn't look like an military acceptance mark?. I will explain this in the next paragraph, as we discuss the introduction of the K suffix on the PPKs. Listed by serial number in Steven Stepan's "SS Walther PP/PPK" as a PPK pistol manufactured for and purchased by the SS. It has a reddish looking grip. This one has a unique reddish grip for some strange reason during this serial range, they experimented with the color, that grip. It didn't. The factory had been destroyed in WWII, and because firearms production was prohibited in Germany after the war, Walther contracted in 1953 with the French company Manurhin to make the guns. Their solution was to introduce an alpha suffix to be added to all of their different pistol model serial numbers. It is a Walther PPK serial 429093K. Walther PPK Serial Number Help Get the gun and give me a call if you want and tell me the markings on it. Tim asked me this question which I get asked fairly often. Only a handfull of those pistols were produced because the German army decided to go for the more advanced P38. [clarification needed] The smaller size made it more concealable than the original PP and hence better suited to plain-clothes or undercover work. So, it's exactly like the nine-millimeter. Send me the serial number. This is a fine Walther PPK pistol with the high desirable/scarce "RZM" markings on the slide. There is no suffix to the serial number. This is a fine Walther PPK pistol with the high desirable/scarce "RZM" markings on the slide. HISTORIC FIREARM OF THE MONTH. Third Variation serial number range 216305p-234705p (13,000 produced) Fourth Variation serial number range 235879p-368800p (66,000 produced) POLICE. The most common variant is the Walther PPK, a smaller version of the PP with a shorter grip, barrel and frame, and reduced magazine capacity.A new, two-piece wrap-around grip panel construction was used to conceal the exposed back strap. John has a mathematical background which is obviously a nice resource and skill when it comes to a subject of progressive divergent serial numbers in two different ranges of serial numbers (PP and PPK) and how Walther handled and did this as I said both from a production standpoint and priority standpoint. I now have the classy button-down. That means I'm very, very old. It is my belief that Walther produced a gun with the serial number that had originally been assigned to it, and this is how “out of sequence” guns exist. There's only two people in the country, probably one guy watching this and me. Not to even mention US made Walther PP's such as the Interarms and now Smith & Wesson. Serial A057xxx. The third variation is Waffen 3 5 9, but no matching magazine, so, therefore, it's still the high polished finish. I could get a commercial, but I'd really like a military-issued gun. This was done because of a recognized problem with PPK pistols which were already in the million serial block. The Reichs Zeugmeisterei (RZM) served as the quartermasters office of the National Socialists (NSDAP) and later became the chief approving authority on many types of military weapons, clothing, textiles and some raw materials. I think it goes back to WWI, and between the wars, they actually didn't have a lot of money. Try checking out a website like Legacy-Collectibles for similar Walther PPKs like your friend has to get an idea as to a possible price range for the gun. These are on the frame in the slide and also a few. Box is intact except somewhere along the line the sticker with the serial number fell off. It was developed for a hidden carriage. At this point in the discussion let me make the following observation about serial number assignments in the Walther Factory. Serial Number Caliber Slide Legend Date Date Location Commercial (E/N)? You will not find a matching magazine. However, some of them did go to the military and it has a completely separate marking, which I'm going to show you in a minute. It was issued to the military as evidenced by the Waffen proofs. In the course of those conversations and exchanges many items related to Walther PP and PPK Wartime (WWII era) production procedures and expediencies arose so John decided to produce an article for the vintage collecting community, especially those interested in wartime Walther PP and PPK production relative to serial number sequencing and production priorities as it relates to these pistols. And the final variation, 4th variation, they fall in the late war range and you'll see this as more of a dull finish, it also has the black grip that you won't find a matching magazine, but it's Waffen 3 5 9. As review says, it includes a little internal lock, with unlike some recent S&W locks, doesn't have any complaints, and they have been out like that for a while. Research the PP's and post war Walther. early pre war model. Walther Pp 22lr Serial Numbers; Walther Ppk Serial Number Year Chart; Interarms Ppk Date Of Manufacture; Greetings.I have a Walther PP for sale, and I have a guy who wants to buy it, but he won't buy it unless I can prove that it is war time. Sometime in 1938 Walther realized that they were going to have a problem with serial numbers, for their model 8 pistol (a smaller size 6,35 m/m semi-auto pocket pistol that had gone into production in around 1920) was now approaching serial number 750000 (the start of the PP pistol numbers). We hired a designer to come up with these. Based upon these serial numbers, it is my assumption that PP number 998957 was also produced before the introduction of the suffix feature. This can again be explained by the fact that guns were being produced in priority sequence and thus serial numbered “out of order”. We still have the brown grip. So, we assume this did not go to the Luftwaffe. Obviously, German officers were somebody in Germany and they could go and buy their own pistol. I hear these actually cycle better, with less stove piping, that the originals. That will determine which one to get. It is for this reason that many collectors believed that the suffix was introduced at the million serial number, but I have shown that it was not. Following this French production, pistols were made in Germany and marked Walther, or made in France and marked Manurhin. The Reichs Zeugmeisterei (RZM) served as the quartermasters office of the National Socialists (NSDAP) and later became the chief approving authority on many types of military weapons, clothing, textiles and some raw materials. For example, the originally assigned PP number of 1000249 became 100249P, etc. I got a Bersa Thunder.380. Post-war P38 in 7.65mm Parabellum. You'll find the slide Waffen proof on the tang. That's a commercial proof of firing proof. Hope this helps.Good Luck! The highest serial numbers for the PPK models are found in the range 431xxxK (the highest I have recorded is number 431097K), revealing a “spread” of only 34,000. And how can I tell the difference between a police trade in and a genuine WWII one? But this one is Waffen 3 5 9 proofed. You can also get an extended 8 rd mag to make grip bigger, too, for 8 in mag, one in chamber. My Grandfather gave my Father tonight a Walther PPK serial number 217167. Only you can say. Sometimes they'll be a stamp. Working Days/Hours:Office hours are by appointment only! But yeah, I got I upgraded my shirt. Probably not too long after the introduction of the milled finish, certainly by 1943, production of the Model PPK began to noticeably slow down. The only ones are known to be 9 MM. Post-war PP and PPK's manufactured at Ulm by Walther for commercial sale carry the antler proof mark of the Ulm proof house. 8 - Wikipedia. This is gonna throw you a curveball. 8 - Wikipedia. My buddy got a Sig 232 - same lay out and look. But rather the German army. Again, the cheat sheet will go over that for you. From that research I have discovered some interesting information about the production of these guns, which I am summarizing in this write-up. You'll see those on Walther products, such as the P-38 and other guns. It is a standard PP, there are no markings on it except for the serial number and maker code. Production was continued in 1945–46 during the French occupation and, later, from 1968 to 1977 by Mauser. It's a very rare 9-millimeter Luftwaffe issued PPs. So, what I'd like to do is take a look at what how do we know it's military issued, the one unique feature that you'll find is the Waffen proof. The PPK uses a shorter barrel, slide and magazine, had a one piece plastic wrap-around grip, and was designed for easier concealment. Walther Pp 22lr Serial Numbers; Walther Ppk Serial Number Year Chart; Interarms Ppk Date Of Manufacture; Greetings.I have a Walther PP for sale, and I have a guy who wants to buy it, but he won't buy it unless I can prove that it is war time. We know that PP production had essentially ended by serial 397000P, which is assumed to have been when the War ended. I have studied the numerous variations of these guns and also analyzed large amounts of serial number data on them. In 1940 actually, end of thirty-nine, early forty, the Nazis decided to dress up their proof marks, and so they took the crown N proof mark and turned it into an eagle N proof mark. You can see the slide legend in there and no matching mag. Price: 1699.00 + 35.00 shipping Buy Now Curio/Relic: Yes Handgun Caliber:.380 ACP (9x17mm Browning Short) Manufacturer: walther Model: PPK Serial Number: 125478A Condition: very good Crown over N stamp shows that the pistol was test fired using ammunition loaded with smokeless gunpowder. A buddy and I both considered PPKs and passed on them - according to internet reports they tend to have poor reliability and slide bite. Evidently, they didn't like it because they went back to the brown suit for a very brief period of time. Buy How To Resolve Light Primer Strikes On Walther Ppk How To Resolve Light Primer Strikes On Walther Ppk Reviews : If you're looking for How To Resolve Light Primer Strikes On Walther Ppk . From this point in time both PP and PPK pistols were being assigned serial numbers intermixed in the same range up until almost number 999999, and it is generally not possible to tell by the serial number if a pistol is a PP or PPK Model. This one is solidly in the listed serial range for the 6.35. If you are not stuck on the Walther name because of 007, you may want to look into surplus 9x18 pistols such as the Polish P-64, the Czech CZ-82, or a Makarov. It is very n... (read more) We're going to see that in a minute. You'll see that on all the Walther weapons, they'll have an eagle or a Waffen Eagle 3 5 9. Only one known, and no one knows why it is marked with an A except for the fact that it was the LAST one made and that it was in Carl Walther residence at the end of the war. So, we know that this went to the Luftwaffe. What I am reading is the serial numbers started in the 750000. I have fired a PPK, the hammer bit into my hand and after 2 mags i quit shooting it. PPK. Browning Blr Serial Numbers. Military PPK’s: First Variation. Bond only for a little ha Have you fired the PP or PPK? But, Walther did not build the guns in a strict serial number sequence; they built guns in a priority sequence. Let me know. Research the PP's and post war Walther. This is known because none of these late War alloy frames have the long overhang tang feature. I want to buy one PP or PPK and I'm not sure what to get. You can also do a quick screenshot if that helps. I do not know the exact date of the introduction of the “ac” slide marking, but it is assumed to have been by January 1945. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. What I am reading is the serial numbers started in the 750000. It is an interesting and informative and somewhat complicated article (based on forty years of collecting data by Mr. Pearson) and requires careful consideration and pondering to really get what is happening. If you find one of those. You bored me to death. Third Variation serial number range 216305p-234705p (13,000 produced) Fourth Variation serial number range 235879p-368800p (66,000 produced) POLICE. Here the slide legend is removed and if you look at the reverse, all they did was put the A.C. stamp, which was the factory code for Walther. Last edited by Lloyd in Vegas; at 11:14 PM. Was at Wal-Mart. In fact, this whole gun has like a reddish hue, which is the way they mixed and mixed the bluing solution and also the preparation of the metal. In fact, this one is missing the proof marks, which means it was never issued. Many will say they are not great range guns because they are uncomfortable to shoot but this is true of many pistols that have the same blow back design. factory modified ... gun would be appreciated the serial is 802xxx no letters after the 6 numbers.. You'll see one here on the end of the barrel. Walther Ppk S Serial Number; Walther Ppk 7 65 Serial Number Lookup By Name; The Mauser HSc is a 7.65mm pistol made in Nazi Germany during World War II and post-war. Are serial numbers .Walther P3. Nice better working more versatile version of PPK, if you are stuck on PPK look and feel. The first variation is in Eagle 3 5 9, now 3 5 9 was the inspector approved for the Walther factory. 8Type. late war or post war. We find these were sent to the Luftwaffe. The Serial Numbers of the pistol subject to this recall are as. If you have any questions you can reach me not on the internet but by telephone at (818) 769-3509, West Coast Time. I carry a PPK as my retirement CCW gun in.380. My dear vintage pistol collector friends, I am posting this information for John Pearson (longtime Walther and vintage WW II era pistol collector). Importation was discontinued 1986, when all production resumed in Ulm, Germany. Crown over N stamp shows that the pistol was test fired using ammunition loaded with smokeless gunpowder. Personally I am partial to the P-64 but the double stack of the CZ-82 is a nice bonus if you don't think it makes it too big. 3-digits scratched inside of slide. HISTORIC FIREARM OF THE MONTH. It was probably in 1941 that Walther made a number of changes to PP and PPK pistols. Just like in the American factories, the inspectors would put their initials. Now, this started out as an eagle 3 5 9 proof and then went to a Waffen 3 5 9 proof. So that's a really quick overview. And this goes along with our theme of Walthers, Walther PPs and PPKs, which are pre 1946. Acceptance stamp: E/359 left on frame. I've own three since then and 1PPK. But since the change over to the P suffix took place just before the million serial was reached for PP pistols, Walther did not produce any PP pistols with a million range number. This is a Luftwaffe marked holster with two matching mags. They just do. The third variation, we have the serial-range, but it is also a Luftwaffe contract. There are periods were ac + production year were stamped next to eachother and periods where this combination was stacked. Must be for a special purpose and I won't bore you with the detail, but we have evidence from downed aircraft, but also from going to some of the Luftwaffe bases. I could get a commercial, but I'd really like a military-issued gun. E/359 left on slide: Test proof stamp: E/N right on chamber Manurhin briefly set up an office in New York to do its own importation, and later moved to Florida. They all are beautifully designed and made. Like with the PPK numbers, for PP pistols they shortened the pre-assigned million range numbers to a number in the one hundred thousand range. It goes over the Serial-Ranges, if you want to look that up, it will give you that information. They were running out of petroleum products. The PPK pistol was introduced into production in 1931/32, apparently starting with serial numbers around 757800. But it is very likely that PPK production ended in 1944, with the last few thousand PPK pistols produced using left over parts, such as aluminum frames which had been produced years earlier and then apparently put into storage. The first handgun I ever bought was a PP in.32 in 1982, a West Germanpolice trade in. We'd love to record your serial numbers. I do not believe that any of these “out of sequence” guns were completed and put on the shelf to later get the Eagle N proof. 7 day inspection period on all website purchases. We both love our Walthers, but in today's modern firearms world they are heavy in comparison to the plastic framed guns. This is also a Waffen  3 5 9. For those of you who like the detail, this will go over all of the serial numbers for each variation. Look into the Ulm/Do mark and Manurhin in France. . I'll put it in our database. Either one of these books will contain an index of serial numbers for Walther guns. The best and only way to ensure an item is yours is to purchase it directly off the site. And they will bite you if you're not paying attention to your grip..380 in them is stout recoil, but it is a better defensive round. The next big change was to eliminate the high polished finish on the guns and to instead use what we collectors have come to call a military or milled finish. For the PPK pistols this change was in effect by the 355xxxK range, and for the PP pistols this change was in effect by the 235xxxP range. But I'd agree if you are open to other guns think Ruger 9mm and don't look back. I have another retired LEO friend who carries a Walther PP in.380. Hoffschmidt's "Know Your Walther PP & PPK" or Gene Gangarosa's "The Walther Handgun Story: A Collector's and Shooter's Guide." We know that production of the PPK Model did not continue until the end of the War because there are no PPK pistols with the Walther “ac” code applied to the slide instead of the full legend markings. They chose the alpha suffix based upon the model of the pistol. It also has the serial number on the slide, which is unique for this subcontract. Made in Argentina, no doubt by escaped Nazis, so the quality is there. Edit to add: (Not my photo!) These changes first appeared for PPK pistols in the 33x,xxxK serial range, and for the PP pistols in the 22x,xxxP serial range. This is the first variation. The designation HSc stood for Hahn Selbstspanner ('self-cocking hammer') Pistole, third and final design 'C'. Mod. 001xxx 9x19mm P38 5/57 Slide No 016xxxE 9x19mm P38 62 Frame Yes 165xxx 9x19mm P38 2/ … I hope all of this will be informative and useful to Walther collectors. Be careful on what you pay for one, often they will be represented as a WW2 era when its really just a police trade in. So, stay in touch. So when people ask, when a specific pistol was produced, it is frankly not possible to identify the manufacturing sequence or a production date for a specific pistol. Walther's Patent Cal 7,65 m/m. It has a rough war finish, and there is no Walther legend on the left side. But when you go to the Luftwaffe bases, you'll find that there was a contract for nine-millimeter. Also, we know they carried, The first variation is in Eagle 3 5 9, now 3 5 9 was the inspector approved for the Walther factory. I want to buy one PP or PPK and I'm not sure what to get. These are on the frame in the slide and also a few. My Grandfather gave my Father tonight a Walther PPK serial number 217167. But the Bersa is a nice old school gun for cheap. Are serial numbers .Walther P3. Walther Pp 22lr Serial Numbers Walther Ppk Serial Number Identification Tool. We know, for example, that all serial numbers from 820xxx to 844xxx are PPK pistols with the RZM marked slide, but no one can say if a PPK in this range was produced before or after PP number 870xxx. Some PP's have a second serial number on the right.Consecutive serial number SVW-46s. Based on my research, during the War the Walther Factory produced a percentage mix of roughly 60% PP pistols and 40% PPK pistols. Many accessories for it too so holsters, spare mags & etc are easy to find. High polished finish comes in a specific Sierra range. Now notice that the first three numbers listed are in the nine hundred and ninety thousand range, and then the numbers with a P suffix revert to the range of ninety-nine thousand, because the high order 9 digit has been dropped from the serial number. When a K was added to this number it became too large to fit on the frame, so what Walther did was to modify this number by dropping the high order 0 (zero) to become number 1728xx, and then the K was added. So yesterday I got an email from Tim. It has interarms Alexandria virgina on the slide This should answer the question. My question is what is the basis for Mr. Pearson's assumptions, for example, that 'orders came into the factory they were assigned serial numbers, starting with the next one available in sequential order' and 'Walther did not build the guns in a strict serial number sequence; they built guns in a priority sequence'. 001xxx 9x19mm P38 5/57 Slide No 016xxxE 9x19mm P38 62 Frame Yes 165xxx 9x19mm P38 2/ … Is it better then the PPK? For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. As orders came into the factory they were assigned serial numbers, starting with the next one available in sequential order. He no longer is a member of NAPCA and is not on the internet so I told him I would be happy to post this great information for him. Typically, they're stamped here in here. If you want more information, you can go to the cheat-sheet. Happy Holidays my collecting friends, Lloyd in Vegas WALTHER MODEL PP & PPK PRODUCTION INFORMATION My name is John Pearson and I have collected German semi-automatic pistols for almost 40 years, with one of my areas of special interest being Walther Model PP and PPK pistols. At first these pistols were also marked PP on the slide, but in the 7579xx serial block they began to be marked on the slide with the new designation of PPK. Since then they were designated Walther MKII. 8Type. An excellent original waher pp prewar, serial number 986940, .22 caliber, crown n, ... 1,395.00waher ppk .22 lr caliber pistol. 'Manufacture of these Walther PP type pistols commenced in Mulhouse, France in 1951. Sort of like a cheaper Mil Spec 1911, in mini-version. On the Walther PPK I came up with 1935 with a serial number range of 8290XX to 9327XX for that year. This is a pre war 6.35mm (25 acp) Walther PPK, one of the rarest Walther variants. After the Model PP was in production and showing success, Walther introduced a smaller variation called the PPK (Police Pistol Kriminal) that was presented in Germany as the Detective model. And therefore, mistakenly, a lot of people say, oh, this one went to the Nazi military. Beautiful looking gun. All of them were test-fired, inspected and hit with an eagle N stamp. The PPK is smaller than the PP. I might try the Hornady Critical Defense stuff though..380 ammo is kinda pricey for plinking and target shooting so be aware of costs. Walther Pp 22lr Serial Numbers Walther Ppk Serial Number Identification Tool. Bersa is most definitely on CA roster, and has pretty strong following with different grips and spare parts and spring tweeks, etc for cheaper than PPK. The serial numbers I have collected for these first P Suffix PP pistols are as follows: 997951P 997963P 998063P 97P 99013P 99025P 99210P 99239P 99428P 99453P 99705P 99930P Note that 999530 is a PPK and does not have a K suffix at this point, proving that it had already been produced before the P and K suffix concept was implemented within Walther.